Interview with Norma White

Norma White was interviewed by Adam Portoghese on April 12, 2012.

Norma White grew up in Reidsville, North Carolina, on a tobacco farm with her mother, father, and sister. Her family employed several African-Americans to work the farm, and Norma grew up in an atmosphere of racial understanding. When integration later came, she needed no time to adjust. She attended Wake Forest University and majored in math. She became a teacher after college, and taught in a number of different locations due to her willingness to follow her husband’s changing career path. Her husband, Alan White, played football in Canada after college, but they soon made their way back to the United States to pursue careers in teaching.  After several more moves throughout the South, Alan became the athletic director at Elon University, and Norma settled into Burlington teaching at Western Alamance High School. She and Alan had a son, who also ended up going to Wake Forest. He is now married and has a child of his own who is now looking at colleges.

On Career Options

Norma spoke of the career possibilities available to women at the time of her graduation from Wake Forest.

You either became a teacher, a social worker, or you could major in business. There were not many options. So I thought, “I will be a teacher, and I am going to stay here. And I will think about nursing later.” I majored in math, and I really had as many hours in science just in case, but I never really thought that I’d have a career. I never really thought I would do that. Because [the way] I grew up, my mother worked in the home, and I just never thought I would do anything. But this was great; I was growing up.

Listen to the audio of Norma’s response about her career choices.

On Teaching

Norma described motivation and passion she found in the teaching.

It was good, challenging. But what I realized was that I loved the students and my subject was just the vehicle to get to work with these students. I would have never been able to if I had not had something to teach them. But my passion was the student. I mean it. I taught the subject because I wanted to do a good a job. I took a lot of pride in what I did and I worked very hard. But at the end of the day it was the student that I just loved. And I keep up with them.

Listen to the audio of Norma’s response about her experiences teaching.

On Values

Norma placed faith as one of the four central themes of her life.

I guess my whole life has been faith: faith in God. I have a strong faith in God, and involvement in my church. My Bible study too. We go to Franklin Street Methodist Church, but the church is a whirl. No matter who I am meeting with we talk about God.

Listen to the audio excerpt about Norma’s faith.

On Humor

From the start it was clear Norma liked to laugh and its value to her daily life.

Humor: You know I have given you four things that I just think in life that just keeps you energized. Finding laughter. Everything is not funny, I know that. But you can get it a way, and [my friend] Jeanne has been a humorist. I see her doing this – finding humor in stressful situations [Laughs], and she can find it. Now there are times in life that everything is not funny, for sure, and that is common sense. But if you just look at things a little differently….

Listen to the audio about humor.

On Tobacco Farming

While at Wake Forest, Norma began to reflect on her family’s livelihood in new ways.

Growing up on the tobacco/vegetable farm, I did not like that. I did not like working in tobacco. I did not think that it was morally good. It was a bad thing. I didn’t know a lot about ethics, but going to Wake Forest I learned a lot of things [Laughing] that we never talked about. But I knew that was how we made money, and it was a good life.

Listen to the audio of Norma’s reflection.

Interview with Janice Allman

Janice Allman was interviewed by Kristin Pinder on November 6, 2010.

Born in 1942, Janice Allman is now sixty-eight years old. She grew up with what she refers to as “Christian heritage,” in a pastor’s home. She was married to Pastor Max Allman until his death seven years ago. She has three children who provided her with fourteen grandchildren. When she is not spending time with family, Mrs. Allman volunteers at the Cancer Center, participates in church activities and manages her cake business.

On Marriage

Janice shares her views on marriage, and discusses her relationship with her late husband, Max.

I really think to have to a good marriage: first of all, it’s got to be grounded with the Lord first. And He’s got to be at the head of your house. And then the Bible says that the man is to be the head of the house. He is to be the spiritual leader. And I think that a man should take that responsibility, and that the wife should let him. Too often I think we tend to think it demeans us, if we can’t have our say. And I’m not saying you’re not supposed to discuss things with each other, I think that’s just common courtesy that you discuss and make plans together. And you make decisions together. But as far as one being over the other, I don’t think being head of the house is being. I didn’t consider him being over me, because he loved and adored me. And he told me that the morning that he died. He came in and said, “I just thank God for you.”

Listen to the audio of Janice’s response about her marriage.

On “The Little Things”

The selection below emphasizes the intertwinement of Janice’s idea of God and her daily routine.

I used to sew a lot for people. And I made most of my children’s clothes. And there would be times where I would get very perturbed at my sewing machine because the thread would break, or the bob[bin] would mess up. And I would literally, when I would sit down to sew, I would ask God, “Please, Lord, help this come out.” Maybe my cakes stuck because I didn’t say, “Help my cakes not stuck.” [Both laugh.] I do so much baking that whenever I take a pound cake out of the oven, I always say, “Lord, please let this come out and not stick,” and it does. I mean, you know [laughs]. Of course this was a new recipe and it may be that I just didn’t grease it quite enough at the bottom, but it’s you know. And a lot of people think, “Oh, that’s silly.” But no, I think God is interested in the little things just as good as He is the big things.

Listen to the audio of Janice’s response about the little things.

On Motherhood

Janice discusses what she considers the hardest part of motherhood.

When you see your children hurt. I don’t care how old they get, they’re still your kids. And you think, “Oh, once they get married, they’re gone.” They’re not. And they hurt, you hurt. It’s just like when they were little and they’re sick, you want to take that pain away, but you can’t. You’d like to be suffering for them when they’re hurting, earaches, whatever, whatever their sickness is.

Listen to the audio excerpt about motherhood.

On Giving Back

Janice volunteers regularly at the Cancer Center. The following conveys what inspires her as she works there.

Well I started that two years ago this past May. In fact, I worked six months when I found out I had cancer. A lot of people say, “Oh, I couldn’t stand to work there,” but I tell you what, it will improve your outlook on life, because you see people come through there every age. Old. Young. Newly married. Fathers expecting [their] first child, in there they find out they have cancer. But I don’t care how bad they might look, you rarely hear any negative response. They come in there and say, “Hey, how are you today?” [The cancer patients say,] “I’m good, I’m good,” but yet they look like they could hardly walk through the door.

Listen to the audio about giving back.

On Peace

After discovering she had breast cancer, Janice found herself at a turning point in her life. In this excerpt, she talks about how she felt.

Two years ago when I was told I had breast cancer, it hit me like, “Oh, my goodness. Cancer. The terrible word.” But just as quick, God me gave me peace. And the fact that I’ve got this in control, you know. And a lot of people go all to pieces but that’s not going to heal the cancer, and that’s not going to make it any worse to lose control or to go ballistic. And I know my son came to me, Chris said, “Mom, are you really that calm about this, or are you just putting a show on for us?” And said, “No, God’s given me peace.”

Listen to the audio of Janice’s response about peace.

Interview with Cheryl Jeffries

Cheryl Jeffries was interviewed by Joanna Rabiej on November 5, 2010.

Cheryl Jeffries is a primary care physician practicing at Burlington’s Kernodle Clinic.  She was born in Alamance County but moved to Maryland at seven years old when her mother re-married.  She came back to North Carolina when she decided to go Duke University for undergraduate education.  Dr. Jeffries attended medical school at University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.  Dr. Jeffries is very active in the community and is involved with a faith-based health improvement ministry.  She has also been instrumental in helping her clinic became more welcoming to female physicians.

On being a female African-American doctor

Cheryl tends to feel there are more issues in medicine related to gender rather than race.  This is apparent in her response to some of her experiences:

Female African-American doctor?  Yeah, I have had patients, they think you’re the nurse – and I don’t know if that’s more of a gender thing. You go in the room in the hospital to take a history and examine the patient, and they’re like, “When’s the doctor coming?” “Ma’am, I am the doctor.” Or “Sir, I am the doctor.”  I don’t know so much as a racist thing, probably more of a gender thing. They assume the doctor is going to be a boy, or they did back then, just assume the doctor’s going to be a guy.  When they saw you, and they’re like, “Excuse me, nurse! Nurse!”  That occasionally happens today. When I went into private practice, I think in residency it wasn’t such an issue because you’re taking care of a lot of indigent patients at that time, so they were just happy to get any care that they could get.  There was not a lot of issues of that kind of thing, “I don’t want her taking care of me.”  I don’t ever really remember experiencing that.

Listen to the audio of Cheryl’s response about her experience as a doctor.

On Spirituality

Well, I think, from being young, I’ve always had a spiritual foundation. My theory on happiness is that you have to have something to believe in that’s bigger than yourself, you have to have something meaningful to do, you have to have somebody to love or take care of, and then you have to have something to look forward to.  Those are my four personal things that I need to have in my life to have balance. I’m finding that my daughter is the same way.  So when I’m sort of spiritually out of balance or not spiritually connected, then things aren’t going right. When I don’t feel like I’m involved in some sort of project that is helping somebody else, then things aren’t going right. I always need something to look forward to. I need a trip, or I need a vacation, or I need something to look forward to. I have kids and significant others, there’s always somebody to love and take care of, somebody always has a need.

Listen to the audio of Cheryl’s response about spirituality.

On differences between certain cities in North Carolina

Cheryl has lived in several cities in North Carolina.  Here she describes some of them:

Well, Durham is Durham. I was there at the university. Durham has really grown, and it’s become a very nice town, but at that time, it was Duke, and then it was Durham. The two just didn’t mix.  So I don’t really have much experience with Durham.  Chapel Hill, of course, I think Chapel Hill and Asheville are the two places in North Carolina that are somewhat eclectic and contemporary and are probably the most liberal cities in North Carolina.  I would say Asheville, Asheville’s really eclectic and kind of liberal and Chapel Hill, so Chapel Hill was a fun place to be and to live and to work. Charlotte is a big city. Booming, growing city, and much bigger now than when I was there, I think.  I left Charlotte in 1992, so I was there from 1986 to 1992. Incredible growth, a lot of young people going there to work in the financial industry, and so it was a yuppy, young urban professional-type place.  So it was a good place to be, socially, and when I was in training, even though you’re on call every third night, you still find some time to socialize at that point.  And all the cities are unique. I like North Carolina, I think you get a little bit of everything in North Carolina.

Listen to the audio excerpt about Cheryl describing North Carolina cities.

On her most rewarding community involvement

Community involvement is very important to Cheryl, as seen through the faith-based health improvement ministry related to her work:

I think probably the most rewarding thing has been this faith-based health improvement initiative because I think we’re going to see more and more of that. That’s been fun and rewarding. I can see it carrying on. Every once a year, the group will say, “We need to get another one of those classes! Everybody’s getting fat again! We need to do our class over!” So people, they re-do the class, and people get motivated and get back on track. We have made some changes in our communities and in our churches that alter the eating, and they’ll remind each other. They’re going through the line at the homecoming dinner, “You know you’re not supposed to eat that fried stuff!” So made some changes. We’ve actually had a nutritionist come out, had somebody go out with them shopping at the grocery store. Each week in the class, you do a little different thing. So that’s been fun.

Listen to the audio about the health improvement ministry.

Reflections on her proudest achievements

Cheryl is a very accomplished woman, as a mother and a physician.  Here she discusses some of her most significant sacrifices, choices, and skills:

I don’t know, I think you make sacrifices, and you make choices. I think I’ve made a lot of sacrifices in terms of career things because I wanted to have a family, and my children have always been the most important thing, most important part of my life.  I think that women in general don’t hang their self-worth on their careers or what they do. That’s just a part of who they are. Men tend to have their whole self-worth tied up in their careers and how much money they make and their successes in terms of their careers. I don’t feel that at all.  I mean, I think I’m good at what I do, and I’m probably good at what I do because of the skills that I possess that have nothing to do with medicine. The same skills that I possess that make me good at being a good mommy. So I guess those would probably be the achievements, the chief of staff and being the oldest and only African-American female partner.

Listen to the audio of Cheryl’s response about her proudest achievements.

Interview with Susan Yow

Susan Yow was interviewed by Pam Richter on November 4, 2010

Susan Yow is the youngest of four siblings, including her older sister Kay who is one of the most well-renowned college basketball coaches in the history of the sport.  Kay is most known for her perseverance through her battle with breast cancer and recording one of the highest win totals in college basketball history.  Debbie Yow, another one of Susan’s older siblings, is the athletic director at N.C. State University, and their older brother played football at Clemson University.  Susan has made her mark on the athletic world as well.  Throughout her career, Susan has twenty four years of Division I coaching experience and spent four seasons coaching professional in the Women’s National Basketball Association.  She was born on August 5th, 1954 in Gibsonville, N.C. and is the current women’s basketball coach at Belmont Abbey College, located in Charlotte, N.C. 

Kay Yow’s cancer battle

It was hard.  It’s just hard.  But Kay handled it so well, it made it easier for everyone.  It really did.  As it got down to the last year and a half or so, we knew it was terminal.  We’ve always known that.  We knew it was level four cancer, but nobody knows your time or day part in this world.  As it got closer you could see the deterioration in her body, that was hard.  But Kay just did a great job handling it.  It made it really easier for everyone.  I don’t think you can ever prepare for death of someone, but having lost our mom to cancer and watching that, to me I was able to prepare myself a little bit for it.  I really was and to really ponder what it was going to be like not to have her here.  It was hard because she and I talked after every game I had ever coached.  Not to have her to pick up the phone to call her after a game was really really strange and really hard.  The year I was here, the rest of that season, I always called her and told her about the game.  But she made it easy, she really made easy how she handled things and her faith and just her enthusiasm for life.  She never lost that.  It was fun all the way up until the very very end until probably the last three weeks and then she was so weak and was in the hospital and stayed in the hospital and that was a hard time.  But, many many people go through it, you just deal with it

Listen to the audio of Susan’s response about her sister’s cancer battle.

A lesson Kay taught her

One thing she taught me and she kind of taught me this when I was at Elon – whatever you do, do your very very best.  Whatever you do, just do your very very best.  It’s what’s on the inside that counts really.

Listen to the audio of Susan’s response about a lesson her sister taught her.

Challenges with coaching

It’s just a lot of pressure.  I admire those people that do it and can do it with great integrity and not lose their values and not be bought, not sell their soul and put your head down every night.

Listen to the audio excerpt about Susan’s thought on the challenges with coaching.

Difference between men’s and women’s basketball

The biggest difference is an age old problem or concern.  They play above the rim, we play below the rim.  They really do and that’s the biggest difference.  ‘Cause you know we can’t dunk, we can’t do alley oops.  And for that reason we don’t have the power the men have in the game as far as the thrust, and we don’t have the speed nor the quickness that they have, but other than that I think in some regards I think our game might be better because I think we are more fundamental and we play more as a unit and we’re not individualized so much because we don’t have that athleticism.

Listen to the audio about the difference in men’s and women’s basketball.


I think I was called here.  I think I’m supposed to be here.  My Christian faith is where all of my values are wrapped up in; everything is wrapped up in that, the Ten Commandments.  Doing to others that you have them do onto you, it’s all wrapped up into that.

Listen to the audio of Susan’s response about her values.

Interview with Miriam K. Slifkin

Miriam K. Slifkin was interviewed by Georgina Oram on November 6, 2010.

Mrs. Slifkin may be known around the state most for her development of the first National Organization for Woman chapter in Chapel Hill as well as her development of the Rape Crisis Center there. Mrs. Slifkin was born on May 24, 1925, in Birmingham, Alabama.   Mrs. Slifkin attended college at the University of Alabama to study chemistry and other sciences. She graduated and received her bachelor’s when she was 21 in 1946.  Mrs. Slifkin’s began her research in Mycology at Princeton and continued it while moving through in Urbana, Illinois, and during her time in graduate school at University of North Carolina Chapel Hill through a division of the Botany Department. Being a woman in the science field in the mid twentieth century was an experience that was controlled by gender. From listening to Mrs. Slifkin talk about her early life and careers, it is clear that her experiences inside and out of the workplace led her to her interest and passion for the Women’s Movement.

On changing her name

Mrs. Slifkin had an interesting experience with her name after her marriage to Larry Slifkin:

I was born Miriam Kressus, and I was identified as Miriam Kressus until I got married. And when I went to get my license – Larry wasn’t there at the time – they wanted to know what my married name will be. And I said, “Miriam Kressus.” And they said, “You can’t.” This was in Alabama. And I said, “Why not? That’s my name.” He says, “You’ll take your husband’s name, it’s the law.” [GO: Wow.] So I was kind of angry about this. I tried to find reasons to be happy about it. And the only reason I could find is that when I was smaller, I was teased, because there was a big chain store Kress, HS Kress, and people used to laugh at me and say I was very wealthy when the opposite was the truth. It was Depression and we were quite poor [Laugh] So I had this anger of being forced. I mean, had it been voluntary, I think I would have felt a lot different.

Listen to the audio of Miriam’s response about her name.

On sex discrimination

When Mrs. Slifkin was applying to jobs after graduate school, she had some trouble getting together her recommendations:

NIHS, which is the Research Triangle Park, this is back when they were first starting, and I applied to them, and you have to have people who will recommend you, references. Dr. Couch, who was theoretically my advisor, had to be one of them. And I got a note from the people I had applied to, and they said, “We’re sorry but we’ve only got two recommendations and you should have three.” And I called them up and asked who was lacking. It was Dr. Couch. And I went into his office and said, “Why didn’t you recommend me?” and he said, “Oh I was afraid you would leave Larry.” There was a chair by his desk and I took that chair, I was so angry, and I took it and went ram! [motion of breaking the chair]. And he said, “Give me, I’ll sign it.” I was so angry. I mean usually I keep my cool very well. But boy, I exploded.

Listen to the audio of Miriam’s response about this experience.

On race and sex discrimination

Mrs. Slifkin talks about her experiences with racial tension while working in a government run lab in Alabama:

I was working in the lab one day, everybody got on beautifully. The man, I don’t know what he was supposed to be. He was supposed to be the head of it, but he did what I did. He probably got paid twice as much. He was quiet he didn’t say anything. But the man that was in charge of the whole operation, all of the state, had an office connected to our laboratory. Well, one day he was in the office and he decided we were making noise. It turned out, one of the black women, a young very attractive young lady, had gotten engaged. She had a ring on. At lunchtime she was showing people the ring, everybody the black and the white. The women weren’t so restrictive as men were. Everybody was cooing over it. And this boss comes in, he said, “What’s going on?” He was just curious. She showed him her ring. He pulled up her dress and started to feel. The other black women, they had Coca-Cola’s you could buy in the lab. They broke the bottles and surrounded him with these broken bottles and threatened him. He got out of there fast. [GO: Oh, yeah] The next thing we knew, his secretary came out with a little board giving names saying, “You’re fired, you’re fired, you’re fired…” All of the black women were fired for threatening him. [GO: Oh my God] Well, I couldn’t stand it. I couldn’t stand it. I went in the office, and said I’m quitting. I just left.

Listen to the audio of Miriam’s response about this experience.

On early activism

Early meetings of the Chapel Hill National Organization for Women Chapter:

First we’d meet in other people’s houses on Monday nights because their husbands would listen to the Monday Night Football or something. Their husbands disappeared so it was very nice for them. They were mostly students so they were in small places. As we grew bigger I said, “Come here.” I asked Larry if it was all right with him, he said, “Yeah. I won’t bother you. I’ll go in the back and leave you alone.” He couldn’t stand it; he couldn’t stand it. We’d get settled here. The first thing he does is comes out, “Can I get you ladies something?” You know, and they would order, “Oh, I’ll have a coke. I’ll have cookies or whatever.” He’d usually come out with a thing of cookies and say, “Can I get you something to drink?” But, I said, “Larry what’d you promise me?” He said, “Oh I just wanted to make sure everybody had refreshments.” [Train goes by] He was so funny.

Listen to the audio about the early NOW meetings.

Experiences leading to activism

The progressive inspiration for the beginning of the Rape Crisis Center in Chapel Hill:

When I was publicized as NOW everybody thought of me as NOW even though there were other people working in it too. People started calling me with problems. I would more or less let them come to my house or I’d meet them at coffee you know in some way if it wasn’t too private. I tried to get out of the house. But some of them saying, “Well I hate to be in a public place.” They would come in. Actually they would usually sit on this couch and we would look out the woods. I found that that made people calmer. So often a woman would come in and she was nervous and she wants to talk but she can’t. I’d just sit up like this on this couch, this couch in very old and it’s heard a lot.

Listen to the audio of Miriam’s response about her meeting with rape victims.

Interview with Caryl Kelso

Caryl Kelso was interviewed by Elizabeth Donovan on April 8th and April 15th 2010.

Caryl Kelso is originally from New York City and she turned Southerner after she and her husband relocated to Whitsett, North Carolina in 1980 for a job opportunity.  Two short years later, her husband sadly passed away from pancreatic cancer.  A single mother with a twelve-year old son at home and two grown daughters, away from her family in New York, she is grateful for the help from her Church family at Sharon Lutheran Church.  She kept going because that’s just what she had to do and didn’t know there was any other choice.  She soon found a new life here when she created a career with a weight loss program and is now in her twenty-eighth year there.  Caryl was able to continue living in her house and now happily has one of her daughter’s families staying with her as well.  She describes her earlier years as a mother and wife as her happiest years but that she is content with her life now as a proud grandmother.  Things have not happened as she had planned but she still says she has been very fortunate and happy with the life she has lived.

On Southern Identity

Caryl had discussed some of the differences she saw between New York City and rural Whitsett, North Carolina.  When asked if she now considers herself a Southerner, she replied:

I consider myself a Southerner because my attitudes and things are different.  Yes, some things, I think, are Yankee probably but I think it’s a good mix.  I like the slower pace, I like the way of living here.  I could not go back to the traffic the way it was when I lived there.  When I go to visit I don’t want to drive.  I don’t want to drive because I still have friends up there that I’ll go to see.  They’ll drive around and I’ll go into the city with them.  That part was nice.  Go to Radio City. Go to Lincoln Center; those kinds of things.  But I wouldn’t want to live there again; much too hectic.  The pace is just too fast.  I like living more leisurely and taking time to enjoy things more.

Listen to the audio of Caryl’s response about her new Southern identity.

On Breast Cancer

In between our interviews Caryl thought of two details she felt were important to mention.  One of these details was her experience with breast cancer:

I was diagnosed with breast cancer in 1987 and had a mastectomy and was one of the very fortunate people.  It hadn’t spread anywhere.  It was in the milk ducts and so when they did the mastectomy they got it all and I then had reconstructive surgery the next year.  That was a big influence in how things went down and all because my husband had only died five years before of cancer so it was a very traumatic time for everybody in the family.  I got into a lot of trouble with my children because I got a call from my gynecologist office telling me that they saw something in the mammogram.  He wanted me to go and see a surgeon and I waited until after I had a needle biopsy before I told any of them.  I didn’t want them all worrying and then they told me that if I ever did that to any of them again they’d never talk to me again.  But I just couldn’t see any point of all of us worrying at the same time so I did wait.  I’ve never done that since and I’d never do that to them again.  But it all worked out very well.  I was very fortunate.

Listen to the audio of Caryl’s response about breast cancer.

On Marital Relationship

Caryl and her husband had traditional family gender roles which they both wanted.  The following is an anecdote that highlights how much they enjoyed their relationship together:

He was the head of the household.  Not that I couldn’t do anything I wanted. [BD:  Mm-hmm].  He was always very proud of the stuff that I did.  I remember when I became President of this Lutheran Women’s church group, we only had one car in the family at the time.  He went out and bought me a used Cadillac because a President should ride around in a Cadillac.

Listen to the audio excerpt about Caryl’s marital relationship.

On Gender Double Standards

Caryl  felt the inability for one parent to stay with the children was hurting individuals and thinks companies that allow men to take time off for family is great.  She made a keen observation that there remains a double-standard:

I think that’s great.  I think that’s great because I think that’s important.  I think that’s important.  I really do.  I’ve often said that all this women’s lib.  Yes, women have more rights today than they had.  However, we’re still expected to do all of the things we used to do.  What we have done is we’ve given ourselves the right to work harder but we still have all of the home stuff to take care of too.  A lot of families they do very good jobs of balancing that but a lot of families don’t.

BD:  It’s still if they haven’t had a plan in place, women are still expected…

CK:  Well, I’ll give you an example.  I remember my daughter Donna saying to me the one time.  “Why is it Mom if I want to do something on the weekend, I have to say to Mark ‘Would you watch Jessica on Saturday I want to go and do’’” She said, “If Mark is doing something, he doesn’t tell me or ask me.  He just does it.” That unfortunately is very true, very true.

Listen to the audio about gender double standards.

On Proudest Accomplishments

Caryl was clearly family oriented so her answer to what her proudest accomplishments were came as no surprise:

I would probably say my children and my grandchildren.  That would be, to me, the greatest accomplishment in anybody’s life if they can say, “I’m really proud of my children.”  Yes, they’ve done and had this going on in their lives that weren’t so great at the time but basically I’m very proud of my children.  I’m extremely proud of my grandchildren.  I find that their choices are basically very good.  I think in today’s world you can’t ask for more than that.

Listen to the audio of Caryl’s response on her proudest accomplishments.